Queer as Fuck...
Oct. 1st, 2003 02:23 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
out_thereJust watched the end of QAFUK. Went to a friend's and watched the last four hours of the series, and was utterly thrilled by the end. Then, she lent me the epilogue/movie, which left me giggling in glee.
In case I haven't said it before, I *love* this series. I think it comes down to three basic factors: setting, characters and dynamic.
Setting
I believe in the UK setting of Manchester. Part of this may be the intriguing accents, but most of it is the slight grittiness to the places they visit. I've never really believed in the US Babylon. Seriously, how many smallish cities have gay discos that big? How many discos seem that clean and glamourous. It may simply be an area difference. Maybe all American discos are like that, but over here in Australia, far more of them are the combination pub/discos seen on the UK version and are generally dives.
The entire air of the UK series is a little less glamorous and a little more gritty. The sex scenes are a little more awkward but they're still extremely hot.
Characters
The characters are allowed to have subtlety, to fill out their roles and they're not forced to be too obvious. Basically, I watch QaFUS and end up hating the characters. The few that I do like are always the tertiary characters, and they're always revealed to have fatal flaws before being disposed of. In QaFUK, I love the characters. I love the secondary characters as well as the main cast but it's the main threesome that hold this series together.
Nathan/Justin
As most of you know, the best I can say about Justin is that I can sometimes stand him. Nathan, I outright support and occasionally cheer (I occasionally want to hit him upside the head too, but I still like him). I think a great deal of the difference comes down to their ages and the relative maturity in both.
Physically, the two are much alike. Both young, slim, pretty blonds who are still in high school. Justin is 17, however he comes across as older, more confident, more manipulative and far less likeable. Nathan comes across as the youthful 15 year old that he is. He isn't as confident, isn't as manipulative, but he does have that perfect combination of arrogance, ignorance and total self-involvement that comes naturally at that age.
This may sound like I'm just choosing favourites, but Nathan does come across as far younger. I think this is mainly caused by the fact that it's clear that QaFUS has chosen Justin/Brian as it's main couple. Brian/Mikey is a sideline, it's a history, but it's never given as much focus as Justin/Brian. Accordingly, the show has tried to age Justin prematurely, to give him a maturity and cunning that come far closer to Brian's age level than Justin's. Nathan's never really treated as a serious option for Stuart, hence, they're under no pressure to make Nathan appear older than he actually is.
Another part of it is the manipulative side of Justin. Don't get me wrong, Nathan can be a manipulative, evil, little teenager when he wants to be, but his level of manipulation is always kept to the high school setting and amongst his peers. And, even though he can manipulate, he tends to get it wrong more often than not. Justin doesn't. Justin has been shown to be able to manipulate Brian, to have an idea of what makes him tick, which seems unlikely for a 17 year old.
A great example of the differences is the scene where Brian (Stuart) starts dancing with the two very attractive guys at Babylon. Justin sees this as his opportunity to attract Brian's attention, by dancing on to the dance floor and drawing both of the young guys away from Brian. (Really, this sets the tone for their future relationship. It's a challenge and mutual manipulation.) Nathan sees Stuart with the two guys and is suitably impressed, but just watches him from the balcony, being rather intimidated as you would expect a teenager to be.
Of course, the other main difference? Nathan really has no skill at dancing. Seriously, the boy is downright bad at it, but he enjoys it so much it's hard not to adore him on the dance floor. For a boy who previously thought he was straight, Justin has some pretty slutty moves.
QaFUS - Right to left: Ted, Justin, Brian and Mikey, with Emmet to the far left.
QaFUK - Right to left: Vince, Alexander, Stuart and Nathan.
Vince/Mikey
Again, they're fairly similar physically speaking at least. Both cute guys with boy-next-door charm. They both have a gay uncle (the US version is slowly dying, the UK version is just a dirty old man) and a mum who enjoys and supports the gay scene (US version works in a gay diner, the UK version just enjoys going out to the gay bars). They both work as manager types in a local supermarket, are total fanboys (of Astroman comics and Dr Who respectively, although Vince also watches Carnation St) and they both have low opinions of themselves. However, that's really where the similarity stops.
As![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
dammitcarl once summarised, the difference is that only Vince thinks of himself as a loser. (I'm paraphrasing, and I'm not searching LJ for quotes when it's almost 1am.) She's right. Vince doesn't think of himself very highly, but it's obvious on the show that the rest of the characters do. He's shown to be a mature, caring, responsible person. He's not as outgoing as Stuart, he doesn't have the same self-confidence, but he's a really good friend.
On the other hand, Mikey is generally shown to not just consider himself a loser, but also actually be a loser. He whines, complains and acts very immaturely about his possessions, his friends, his mother and even his childhood bedroom. He is timid and uncertain, and although he's the most sympathetic character of the show, he's also shown to be the most pathetic character on the show.
Basically, Mikey is an example of who Vince would be, if Vince really was as useless and as limited as he seems to believe.
Stuart/Brian
This is the biggest difference in the two series. As much as I have always disliked Brian, I adore Stuart. For two guys who are supposed to be the same basic character, this is quite a difference.
Brian is highly attractive, in a fairly conventional way. However, he's also highly boring. I'm trying not to judge Gale Harold by his performance, but honestly, if Brian ever exceeds a monotone, I'll be surprised. Okay, he's not quite as lifeless as that, and my personal bias is showing strongly, but the fact of the matter is that Stuart has far more charisma in his pinky than Brian has in his... whole body. (I could have been rude, but I wasn't. Be glad. *g*)
Part of our problem here is pure looks. Brian is far more attractive. He's also taller, with broader shoulders and far better built. Stuart isn't. Sure, Stuart's cute as hell, in a quirky, Alan Cumming kind of way, but he isn't drop-dead gorgeous. He just acts as if he is, and his confidence manages to charm most people into believing it. Basically, Brian looks like the type of person Stuart imagines himself to be.
However, the bigger reason for liking Stuart is that he's a far more rounded person. His family isn't perfect, but neither has the show burdened him with homophobic horrors as parents. He has a sister and nephews who are refreshingly normal, generally speaking. They're both selfish, vain guys who love being the slut of Babylon and who believe that too much commitment is seeing a trick for a second night. They both work in PR/advertising firms, earn a lot of cash and live in trendy lofts (although, I have to say I prefer Stuart's. It's virtually the same as Brian's, except with a lot of colour, mainly warm oranges, and his own snack vending machine!). they both scheme and manipulate, and do it well.
The difference is not just the characters, as the way the show treats them. QaFUS wants Brian to constantly be the Bad Boy but it doesn't want him disliked. Brian does a great deal of nasty things, yet most of the characters still admire and respect him. Stuart does a lot of nasty things, and his best friends will be the first to admit that he's a total "twat". The show allows us to laugh at Stuart. It shows him being petty and silly, being drunk and highly unattractive. Stuart is human, and fallible, but frequently not admirable. He's not forced to play nice, he's allowed to screw up and because of that, he comes across as far more human and easier to relate to. He tends to come across as mischeivious, rather than outright nasty.
Of course, the other reason I like him is his relationship with the other characters. The trouble is that Stuart actually seems sincere. Brian barely convinces me that he cares for his friends, but Stuart makes it obvious. He may leave them for dust for a good screw, but he still cares.
Dynamics
Here's where it gets really interesting. The basic dynamics between the main three creates the core of the show. The Brian/Mikey dynamic is supposedly friendship, however the show goes out of it's way to make Mikey look like a failure and Brian look like a success. It purposely makes this relationship very lopsided. Even physically, Brian's taller, better looking, better built. He has more money, more success, better clothes, better car, better place. Mikey is always one step behind, like a high school friend that never grew up. Unfortunately, it also makes Mikey look pretty powerless to stand up against Brian's manipulations, which makes Brian look like even more of a bastard than he should.
The Stuart/Vince relationship is far more equal. Sure, you still have this odd blend of unresolved sexual tension mixed with an old friendship, but it isn't quite as unbalanced. Physically, Stuart and Vince are roughly the same level of attractiveness (and similar heights). In the other respects, the show doesn't pay as much attention to promoting Stuart, and Vince doesn't really seem to care. Certainly, Vince still sees himself as not being enough for Stuart, but that's purely Vince's hang-up. It's obvious that this misconception isn't true. Of course, the other thing that this equality shows is that the relationship is not run by Stuart's manipulations. Vince is a happy and willing participant who becomes somewhat aware of the power he holds.
Mikey/Justin always seems to be petty jealousy and rivalry. Vince/Nathan is more a case of annoyance and unwilling concern, which later evolves into friendship. Basically, although Nathan is far more immature, Vince isn't, so this dynamic doesn't end up a mere irritation, and actually has promise for something more in some of the scenes.
Justin/Brian is a difficult relationship for me to fathom. Let's just say that Stuart/Nathan is far less intense, and personal. It's clear that it's a teen crush/obsession on Nathan's part, just as it's clear that Stuart has not, and never would, consider Nathan seriously. He barely even likes the idea of being friends with a 16 year old, let alone being involved with one. Justin/Brian is not a relationship that I can believe in, or readily accept, and it seems to be based on mutual manipulation and lust more than anything else. Basically, it leaves me cold and the only reason I've ever supported it is because both Justin and Brian are less annoying when they're together (and generally have less screen time in total).
All in all, the feel of the shows are different. The UK version is more subtle, the characters are less obvious and less extremely labelled. The characters feel more believable and therefore, are far more lovable. Basically, as much as every episode of QaFUS leaves me seething at the characters, QaFUK leaves me loving them, and I can't ask for much more than that.
In case I haven't said it before, I *love* this series. I think it comes down to three basic factors: setting, characters and dynamic.
Setting
I believe in the UK setting of Manchester. Part of this may be the intriguing accents, but most of it is the slight grittiness to the places they visit. I've never really believed in the US Babylon. Seriously, how many smallish cities have gay discos that big? How many discos seem that clean and glamourous. It may simply be an area difference. Maybe all American discos are like that, but over here in Australia, far more of them are the combination pub/discos seen on the UK version and are generally dives.
The entire air of the UK series is a little less glamorous and a little more gritty. The sex scenes are a little more awkward but they're still extremely hot.
Characters
The characters are allowed to have subtlety, to fill out their roles and they're not forced to be too obvious. Basically, I watch QaFUS and end up hating the characters. The few that I do like are always the tertiary characters, and they're always revealed to have fatal flaws before being disposed of. In QaFUK, I love the characters. I love the secondary characters as well as the main cast but it's the main threesome that hold this series together.
Nathan/Justin
As most of you know, the best I can say about Justin is that I can sometimes stand him. Nathan, I outright support and occasionally cheer (I occasionally want to hit him upside the head too, but I still like him). I think a great deal of the difference comes down to their ages and the relative maturity in both.
Physically, the two are much alike. Both young, slim, pretty blonds who are still in high school. Justin is 17, however he comes across as older, more confident, more manipulative and far less likeable. Nathan comes across as the youthful 15 year old that he is. He isn't as confident, isn't as manipulative, but he does have that perfect combination of arrogance, ignorance and total self-involvement that comes naturally at that age.
This may sound like I'm just choosing favourites, but Nathan does come across as far younger. I think this is mainly caused by the fact that it's clear that QaFUS has chosen Justin/Brian as it's main couple. Brian/Mikey is a sideline, it's a history, but it's never given as much focus as Justin/Brian. Accordingly, the show has tried to age Justin prematurely, to give him a maturity and cunning that come far closer to Brian's age level than Justin's. Nathan's never really treated as a serious option for Stuart, hence, they're under no pressure to make Nathan appear older than he actually is.
Another part of it is the manipulative side of Justin. Don't get me wrong, Nathan can be a manipulative, evil, little teenager when he wants to be, but his level of manipulation is always kept to the high school setting and amongst his peers. And, even though he can manipulate, he tends to get it wrong more often than not. Justin doesn't. Justin has been shown to be able to manipulate Brian, to have an idea of what makes him tick, which seems unlikely for a 17 year old.
A great example of the differences is the scene where Brian (Stuart) starts dancing with the two very attractive guys at Babylon. Justin sees this as his opportunity to attract Brian's attention, by dancing on to the dance floor and drawing both of the young guys away from Brian. (Really, this sets the tone for their future relationship. It's a challenge and mutual manipulation.) Nathan sees Stuart with the two guys and is suitably impressed, but just watches him from the balcony, being rather intimidated as you would expect a teenager to be.
Of course, the other main difference? Nathan really has no skill at dancing. Seriously, the boy is downright bad at it, but he enjoys it so much it's hard not to adore him on the dance floor. For a boy who previously thought he was straight, Justin has some pretty slutty moves.
QaFUS - Right to left: Ted, Justin, Brian and Mikey, with Emmet to the far left. QaFUK - Right to left: Vince, Alexander, Stuart and Nathan.Vince/Mikey
Again, they're fairly similar physically speaking at least. Both cute guys with boy-next-door charm. They both have a gay uncle (the US version is slowly dying, the UK version is just a dirty old man) and a mum who enjoys and supports the gay scene (US version works in a gay diner, the UK version just enjoys going out to the gay bars). They both work as manager types in a local supermarket, are total fanboys (of Astroman comics and Dr Who respectively, although Vince also watches Carnation St) and they both have low opinions of themselves. However, that's really where the similarity stops.
As
dammitcarl once summarised, the difference is that only Vince thinks of himself as a loser. (I'm paraphrasing, and I'm not searching LJ for quotes when it's almost 1am.) She's right. Vince doesn't think of himself very highly, but it's obvious on the show that the rest of the characters do. He's shown to be a mature, caring, responsible person. He's not as outgoing as Stuart, he doesn't have the same self-confidence, but he's a really good friend.On the other hand, Mikey is generally shown to not just consider himself a loser, but also actually be a loser. He whines, complains and acts very immaturely about his possessions, his friends, his mother and even his childhood bedroom. He is timid and uncertain, and although he's the most sympathetic character of the show, he's also shown to be the most pathetic character on the show.
Basically, Mikey is an example of who Vince would be, if Vince really was as useless and as limited as he seems to believe.
Stuart/Brian
This is the biggest difference in the two series. As much as I have always disliked Brian, I adore Stuart. For two guys who are supposed to be the same basic character, this is quite a difference.
Brian is highly attractive, in a fairly conventional way. However, he's also highly boring. I'm trying not to judge Gale Harold by his performance, but honestly, if Brian ever exceeds a monotone, I'll be surprised. Okay, he's not quite as lifeless as that, and my personal bias is showing strongly, but the fact of the matter is that Stuart has far more charisma in his pinky than Brian has in his... whole body. (I could have been rude, but I wasn't. Be glad. *g*)
Part of our problem here is pure looks. Brian is far more attractive. He's also taller, with broader shoulders and far better built. Stuart isn't. Sure, Stuart's cute as hell, in a quirky, Alan Cumming kind of way, but he isn't drop-dead gorgeous. He just acts as if he is, and his confidence manages to charm most people into believing it. Basically, Brian looks like the type of person Stuart imagines himself to be.
However, the bigger reason for liking Stuart is that he's a far more rounded person. His family isn't perfect, but neither has the show burdened him with homophobic horrors as parents. He has a sister and nephews who are refreshingly normal, generally speaking. They're both selfish, vain guys who love being the slut of Babylon and who believe that too much commitment is seeing a trick for a second night. They both work in PR/advertising firms, earn a lot of cash and live in trendy lofts (although, I have to say I prefer Stuart's. It's virtually the same as Brian's, except with a lot of colour, mainly warm oranges, and his own snack vending machine!). they both scheme and manipulate, and do it well.
The difference is not just the characters, as the way the show treats them. QaFUS wants Brian to constantly be the Bad Boy but it doesn't want him disliked. Brian does a great deal of nasty things, yet most of the characters still admire and respect him. Stuart does a lot of nasty things, and his best friends will be the first to admit that he's a total "twat". The show allows us to laugh at Stuart. It shows him being petty and silly, being drunk and highly unattractive. Stuart is human, and fallible, but frequently not admirable. He's not forced to play nice, he's allowed to screw up and because of that, he comes across as far more human and easier to relate to. He tends to come across as mischeivious, rather than outright nasty.
Of course, the other reason I like him is his relationship with the other characters. The trouble is that Stuart actually seems sincere. Brian barely convinces me that he cares for his friends, but Stuart makes it obvious. He may leave them for dust for a good screw, but he still cares.
Dynamics
Here's where it gets really interesting. The basic dynamics between the main three creates the core of the show. The Brian/Mikey dynamic is supposedly friendship, however the show goes out of it's way to make Mikey look like a failure and Brian look like a success. It purposely makes this relationship very lopsided. Even physically, Brian's taller, better looking, better built. He has more money, more success, better clothes, better car, better place. Mikey is always one step behind, like a high school friend that never grew up. Unfortunately, it also makes Mikey look pretty powerless to stand up against Brian's manipulations, which makes Brian look like even more of a bastard than he should.
The Stuart/Vince relationship is far more equal. Sure, you still have this odd blend of unresolved sexual tension mixed with an old friendship, but it isn't quite as unbalanced. Physically, Stuart and Vince are roughly the same level of attractiveness (and similar heights). In the other respects, the show doesn't pay as much attention to promoting Stuart, and Vince doesn't really seem to care. Certainly, Vince still sees himself as not being enough for Stuart, but that's purely Vince's hang-up. It's obvious that this misconception isn't true. Of course, the other thing that this equality shows is that the relationship is not run by Stuart's manipulations. Vince is a happy and willing participant who becomes somewhat aware of the power he holds.
Mikey/Justin always seems to be petty jealousy and rivalry. Vince/Nathan is more a case of annoyance and unwilling concern, which later evolves into friendship. Basically, although Nathan is far more immature, Vince isn't, so this dynamic doesn't end up a mere irritation, and actually has promise for something more in some of the scenes.
Justin/Brian is a difficult relationship for me to fathom. Let's just say that Stuart/Nathan is far less intense, and personal. It's clear that it's a teen crush/obsession on Nathan's part, just as it's clear that Stuart has not, and never would, consider Nathan seriously. He barely even likes the idea of being friends with a 16 year old, let alone being involved with one. Justin/Brian is not a relationship that I can believe in, or readily accept, and it seems to be based on mutual manipulation and lust more than anything else. Basically, it leaves me cold and the only reason I've ever supported it is because both Justin and Brian are less annoying when they're together (and generally have less screen time in total).
All in all, the feel of the shows are different. The UK version is more subtle, the characters are less obvious and less extremely labelled. The characters feel more believable and therefore, are far more lovable. Basically, as much as every episode of QaFUS leaves me seething at the characters, QaFUK leaves me loving them, and I can't ask for much more than that.
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no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 09:36 am (UTC)Damn, I'm so in the wrong country.
no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 04:23 pm (UTC)People told me that when I first saw (and bitched about) the US version, but I had to wait to come across fannish friends who had the tapes/DVDs.
I cannot stress the how good the UK version is. There is a totally different focus in the US version and it suffers for it.
no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 09:49 am (UTC)i'm not sure that i actually said that up there. i'll have to go back and find my analysis that was over at blogspot.
you've got great points here, but i'm in a rush and i just wanted to say one thing. the uk version was about vince, not stuart. stuart was playing the villain, but somehow the americans didn't get it. so now the show's all about brian and will only ever be another failed us remake.
no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 03:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 04:25 pm (UTC)You did comment on LJ, about a month or so ago, I'm fairly sure. You mentioned how much you liked Vince, and disliked Mikey, but it was a fairly short entry.
*hopes memory isn't as sieve-like as it usually is...*
no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 05:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 04:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-01 05:08 am (UTC)I've never felt much for Nathan or Justin but you're right in that Nathan was very much on the outside looking in, and Justin has managed to insert himself to everybody's life like a spider in the middle of a web. Sure he's cute, but I don't feel he's real.
The only thing I prefer about the US version is Ted and Emmett. I'm looking forward to season 2 and Ted's porn king empire, and Emmett's doomed love affair.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-01 01:10 pm (UTC)Mmmm... I liked David. I also liked Cameron, Vince's Aussie accountant. I mean, apart from the taking over 'let me run your life for you' aspect, they were good guys. *g*
The one thing about Vince was, he never gave up on Stuart, no matter how many jokes Stuart made about 'saving him for my old age'.
The real thing is that Vince makes the choice to stand by Stuart. A couple times in the series, it's not just a case of not giving up on Stuart, he actually consciously chooses Stuart. I'm not sure if Mikey ever does... I haven't seen all of the US series, so I can't say for sure, but I always get the impression of Mikey being manipulated into staying or going. When he comes back, it wasn't his personal choice, it was circumstances. *shruggs* Vince choosing Stuart makes him a strong, interesting character. Mikey's lack of choice makes him look weak and bland.
I've never felt much for Nathan or Justin but you're right in that Nathan was very much on the outside looking in, and Justin has managed to insert himself to everybody's life like a spider in the middle of a web. Sure he's cute, but I don't feel he's real.
Spider!Justin... I like that mental image. Yeah, he's just such a butt-in-ski that he bugs me. There's just no respect for the natural process, of gaining wisdom with your years. Then again, maybe it's an american thing.
The only thing I prefer about the US version is Ted and Emmett. I'm looking forward to season 2 and Ted's porn king empire, and Emmett's doomed love affair.
Heh. To be honest, I liked Phil and Alexander. *g*
But Ted and Emmett are my favourite US characters, without a doubt. (They generally don't annoy me.)